Omega Pocket Watch

[ankerhemmung]

Tekrar bir kaç şey yazayım. TCDD saatleri dışında şimdiye kadar benim de gördüğüm Osmanlı dönemine ait OMEGA demiryolcu saatleri İzmir/Turgutlu-Aydın demiryolu hattını 1893-1932 arasında işleten Fransız şirketi Société Ottomane du Chemin de fer de Smyrne-Cassaba et Prolongements'e (S.C.P.) ait saatlerdir. "intime"nin verdiği bilgi de buna uyuyor. Bu saatler 6-7 cm. yarıçaplı (Goliath da denilen) open-face saatlerdir. Makineleri kasaya bir menteşe ile bağlıdır. Arka kapaklarında kabartma bir lokomotif deseni ve altında S.C.P. harfleri bulunmaktadır. Ancak bu saatlerin kadranlarında bugün kullandığımız avrupa-arabik rakamlar yer alıyor. Bu da OMEGA'nın 1926 yılında bu şirkete saat imal ettiğine uyuyor. Bu bölgede S.C.P. nin önceli İngiliz şirketi The Smyrna Cassaba Railway (S.C.R) ve Orient-Ottoman Railway Company (O.R.C.) gibi başka demiryolu şirketleri de var. Ancak bunlara ait bir saat hiç görmedim. Bunun dışında normal arap rakamlı (ki Osmanlı'da da bu rakamlar kullanılıyordu, şu meşhur Osmanlı rakamları! aslında sadece saat kadranlarında bulunan stilize edilmiş rakamlardır, ama kim tarafından bilemiyorum - Brequet olabilir mi?) ZENITH demiryolu saatleri de var (sanırım bunların bazılarının kadranlarında da Arap harfleriyle "İzmir Kasaba ve Temdidi Demiryolu" vb. bir şey yer alıyor) . Avcı kasalı (Savonette) yine stilize Osmanlı! kadranlı ve kadranlarında lokomotif figürleri yer alan ROSKOPF PATENT saatler de var ama bunların demiryolları ile gerçekten bir ilgisi var mıdır, bu konuda bilgi sahibi değilim.
İnternette saat forumlarında yine stilize Osmanlı! rakamlı kadranı olan ve Mısır'da tramvay çalışanları için yapılmış MOERIS marka bir saat görmüştüm. Belki de OMEGA da daha çok İstanbul ve Anadolu'ya uzak Osmanlı coğrafyasında saat satmıştır. Ya da OMEGA saatlere rastlayamamamızın bir nedeni de Osmanlı'nın gümüş ve süslü avcı kasalı, yalancı padişah tuğralı, makineleri sahte ve işlevsiz ama gösterişli kırmızı kapak taşlarıyla bezenmiş, anahtarla kurulan, süslü köstek/zincirleri olan ve hala "Vayyyy köstekli Serkisoff!" diyebildiğimiz BILLODES ve benzeri diğer İsviçre saatlerine daha düşkün olmasıdır. Çok daha bilgili Forum arkadaşlarım kusuruma bakmasınlar ve yanlışlarım varsa lütfen düzeltsinler derim. Selamlar

[intime]

@ankerhemmung, the Turkish translation is slowing the communication process unfortunately.
Would it be possible to have the previous messages translated in English, German, French or Italian ? It would be much easier for me to assimilate it correctly and respond accordingly.
So what you are basically saying is that the earliest Turkish railways (1926 - onwards) watches were only fitted with ordinary dials (Roman or Arabic numerals -> Latin script) because the railways were under foreign administration ?! And the operators were actually not locals ?! Interesting fact.
It is true that any given watch with a diameter over 6 cm is considered Goliath. Omega has fitted regular movements cal. 19/20 in such big cases over 57mm. But Omega has also produced Goliath size movements and fitted them in different case styles (from pocket watch style to dashboards and desk clocks). The earliest ones are the cal. 27" and 30" and I already have them (the most difficult would be to find one with an Omega / L.Brandt signature on either dial and movement, since most of them came unsigned); and the later one is cal. 59.8D (PC and SCS -> recessed seconds and center seconds), but I have not seen yet, no matter the period, any Goliath size Omega watch with an Ottoman dial.
What I can also confirm is that I never saw an Omega pocket watch fitted with an Ottoman dial and also decorated with Sultan's monogram (Tugra), no matter the period. I suppose if any shows up, it may well be fake. But, during time, I have seen various Omega Ottoman dials that had besides the Omega logo, at least another dedication, dealer's name, etc., like the one I have presented in my second post. Sooner or later, I'm sure I will be able to find one, the only shortcoming is the condition!

Greetings,

/F

[darksider]

Intime,

Please find the translation of the previous message from @ankerhemmung

It seems that I was so bored today and had nothing to do but translate it for you , please don't ask again, at least from me . Cheers Mate...

"Let me tell some more. Except the TCDD (Turkish railway) watches, the Omega railway watches from the ottoman era I have seen up to now beLongs to the French company Société Ottomane du Chemin de fer de Smyrne-Cassaba et Prolongements'e (S.C.P.), who operated the İzmir/ Turgutlu-Aydin railway between 1893-1932. This information is in accordance with the info coming from "intime". These watches are open face watches with a radius of 6-7 cm (also called Goliath). The mechanisms are attached to the case with a knuckle (hinge). There is a locomotive drawing and S.C.P letters are carved beneath. But in these watches, the numbers are European-Arabic. This also shows that omega has manufactured watches for this company in 1926. In this area, before S.C.P, there are other companies such as S.C.R. and O.R.C. But I've never seen watches belonging to these companies. Except these, there are some zenith railway watches (I think some of these have on their faces written "İzmir Kasaba ve Temdidi Demiryolu" or something similar in Arabic) with Ottoman dials! (This numbers are from Arabic alphabet in fact which ottomans used to use. The famous ottoman numbers! Are just stylized versions of them, by whom I don't know, Brequet may be)
There are some ROSKOPF PATENT savonette watches with Ottoman! Dials but I have no idea if they are related to railways.

I saw a watch branded Moeris on Internet in some forum once with ottoman dial produced for tramway workers in Egypt. Maybe Omega sold the majority of their watches in the ottoman lands far from Anatolia and Istanbul. Or another reason that we can not see so many omega watches may be that the ottomans favored silver savonette watches having tugra and some red jems with fancy chains, like the ones from Billodes or similar Swiss manufacturers , which we still comment like "hey, look at your fancy chained Serkisoff watch, where did you get it...""

[osytrk]

Certainly Omega???

Just look at this one; http://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/alisveri ... 5393/detay

[osytrk]

Or maybe you may want to get this one? >>> http://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/alisveri ... 2071/detay

[intime]

@darksider, thanks a lot for the translation. It definitely puts things into a better perspective.

I have seen such hinged Omega pocket watches with screw in bezels and thick glass. They are more common on the US and Canadian market. In fact I have a few myself.
However, American Railroad watches had a few standards, and during their times, they rapidly gained fame for their accuracy. Nowadays, we see many similar watches that have locomotive motifs to the back, but most are not railroad watches.
These watches are called "Train watches". "Train watch" only refers to case style (locomotive motifs), while a genuine Railroad watch is a watch that meets the General Railroad Timekeeping Standards.

However, a train watch and a railroad watch has some common features. One of them is the case. Most of the case makers were locals like Dennison, Starr, Waltham, Elgin, American Watch case, etc. (one of the reasons was to protect their local watchmaking industry) and Omega had no option but to adopt the stile in order to export their manufacture to the American soil.
Soon after they gained popularity, Omega made their own hinged cases and retailed them even in Europe. They did not have the same success, but it is worth mentioning that such hinged cases with screw in bezels do exist, either in nickel (sometimes referred as Silveroid) and even silver.
The fact that Turkish railroads adopted this case style is quite a novelty, especially considering that most of the European railways watches had different case styles.
Even in terms of movement quality, the European Railways standards were different then the US/Canadian standards. In Europe most of the pocket watches observed had 15 jewels ebauches and only rarely Chronometer quality movements. But even for the European Railways the competition was fierce between manufacturers, thus from time to time, to overcome the rest or just because they were capable of such creations, we see, out in the wild, top of the class chronometers made for Railroad services.

The fact that I should focus on an Omega pocket watch with ottoman dial delivered outside the walls of Istanbul or far from Anatolia has occurred to me many times. But given the actual context or various other barriers in trying to establish a solid route to one, I'm not flippant to think that I'll have much luck elsewhere.

Greetings,

[ankerhemmung]

Zahmete girip yazdıklarımı İngilizceye çeviren forum üyelerine İntime ve kendim adına teşekkür ediyorum. Başkaca bir şey yazmayacağım zaten.

[ankerhemmung]

Mesaj osytrk » 18 Mar 2016, 01:49
Or maybe you may want to get this one? >>> http://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/alisveri ... 2071/detay

Gerçekten güzel bir saatmiş. Fiyatı biraz fazla! galiba ama, yine de alıcısı bulunur belki.